"Jay Conrad Levinson’s ,
Father of Guerrilla
Marketing, In Search of
Entrepreneur Heroes
Interview"
Ralph Zuranski:
Hi, this is Ralph Zuranski;
I’m speaking with Jay Conrad
Levinson. He’s the
best-selling author of
Guerrilla Marketing, one of
the top-selling business
marketing series in history.
He has thirty-one other
books to his credit. He has
sold over 14 million copies
of his books worldwide. His
guerrilla concepts have
influenced marketing so much
that his books appear in
forty-one languages and are
required reading in MBA
programs worldwide.
Ralph Zuranski:
Jay taught guerrilla
marketing for ten years at
the extension division of
the University of California
in Berkeley. He was a
practitioner of it in the
United States – as Senior
Vice President of J. Walter
Thompson, and in Europe, as
Creative Director of Leo
Burnett Advertising.
Ralph Zuranski:
He has written a monthly
column for Entrepreneur
Magazine, articles for Inc.
Magazine, and online columns
published monthly on the
Microsoft website. Jay also
has written online columns
for Netscape, America
Online, Hewlett-Packard and
American Express.
Ralph Zuranski:
He is the Chairman of
Guerrilla Marketing
International, a marketing
partner of Adobe and Apple.
His legendary Guerrilla
Marketing is a series of
books, workshops, audios,
videos, a CD-ROM, an
Internet website, and now,
The Guerrilla Marketing
Association – an interactive
marketing support system for
small business that puts you
in direct contact with Jay
every week.
Ralph Zuranski:
Most of all, Guerrilla
Marketing is a way for
business owners to spend
less, get more, and achieve
substantial profits.
Ralph Zuranski:
And this is the man to
transform you into a
guerrilla marketer – The
Father of Guerrilla
Marketing – Jay Conrad
Levinson.
Ralph Zuranski:
Jay, how are you doing
today?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Doing just fine, especially
after hearing those glowing
words. Thank you, Ralph.
Ralph Zuranski:
You have an amazing track
record. You probably
single-handedly changed the
world and helped millions of
business people get more and
do more for less money and
less time.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
That means that I achieved
my goal because that is what
I was trying to do.
Ralph Zuranski:
I really appreciate you
taking your valuable time to
answer the Hero’s
questions. You are
definitely one of my heroes
because you have helped so
many small entrepreneurs and
big businesses, too, to be
more successful. And that
is what business is all
about, being successful.
What is your definition of
heroism?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I think it’s doing what you
think would be difficult for
you to do. Something you
were scared to do but doing
it after all and doing it
well. I think that is real
heroism.
Ralph Zuranski:
So you think it takes a lot
of courage to be a hero?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Not necessarily, but
ordinarily, yes. It takes a
lot of interior courage. Not
the kind you might be able
to make a movie out of, like
seeing someone rushing into
a blazing building. But the
kind that causes a person to
do something that other
people said, “Well, you
can’t do that,” or “You’ve
never done that before,” and
doing it anyhow. I think
that is a hero.
Ralph Zuranski:
What is your perspective on
goodness, ethics and moral
behavior?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I think that those are part
and parcel of everything I
write about in Guerrilla
Marketing. If you don’t
practice those things,
you’re not going to feel
good about yourself and the
world isn’t going to feel
good about you.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
It’s something that you
probably, if you are doing
it right, don’t have to try
to be those things and do
those things. Those are
things that are inherent
within you, maybe because of
training you received as you
were growing up.
Ralph Zuranski:
What are the principles you
are willing to sacrifice
your life for?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
There haven’t been many
sacrifices that I’ve had to
make. The principles that
I’ve had to sacrifice
already: leaving the home
where I was brought up,
leaving father, mother, and
sister, when I struck out to
leave Chicago and move west
to California. Those were
things I left behind that
were of value to me in my
own act of heroism, moving
west.
Ralph Zuranski:
In the world today there’s
sort of a question about the
people who actually get paid
to put their lives on the
line compared to the people
that sacrifice their own
self-interest to help
people, members of their
family that are sick, or
people in their community
that need help. What do you
think is the different
between that sacrifice of
people who sacrifice their
lives and those who do a
quiet sacrifice on a daily
basis to help others?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
The ones who do it on a
daily basis are the real
heroes because of the daily
part of it. I met somebody
just yesterday and when I
heard what he does every
single day, I thought, “This
is not the kind of thing
people will write about.
It’s not the kind of thing
he’s going to talk about.”
He’s a real American hero
because he does this every
single day. And he manages
to enjoy it.
Ralph Zuranski:
What was it that he does?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Being a caregiver for his
mother whom he doesn’t live
with. It’s interesting that
doing that on a daily basis
really did make him a hero.
She is very lucky to have a
son like that.
Ralph Zuranski:
Yea, well that’s what I’m
doing for my mom and dad now
and I can tell you that it
is beyond anything that you
could ever imagine. I
remember when I said, “Oh,
yea, I’ll take care of my
mom and dad when they need
help.” And now that I’m
doing it I realize just what
a great blessing it can be,
but also what an incredible
challenge it is everyday.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
And there are so many people
who meet that challenge. And
those are unsung heroes,
like teachers. Caregivers
and teachers do really
heroic work on a daily
basis, but don’t get
recognized for it on a daily
basis, although people do
realize the good that they
are doing. But it’s not like
their name appears in the
paper and Larry King
interviews them on
television.
Ralph Zuranski:
You know, everybody has low
points in their life. Some
people get defeated by
having just one low point in
their life, and many people
have lots of low points.
What’s one of the lowest
points in your life, and how
did you change your path to
have victory over the
obstacles that you were
experiencing at that time?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I’d say that probably the
lowest point was when I
thought that I had achieved
my lifetime ambition working
in Chicago. It was thirteen
degrees below zero and I
thought, “Boy, here I am
having done everything that
I wanted to do. However,
it’s really cold here and I
don’t think I want to live
the rest of my life here.”
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I thought that I was a
success, but when I went to
my advertising agency and
went to the boss and asked
them to transfer me. I was
told that that was just not
possible and it dawned on me
that I was really a slave in
a three-piece suit.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Although I wasn’t doing
manual labor, I was doing
hard labor and was still
getting a place not fit for
man or beast because of the
weather.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
When I had determined my
lifestyle ambition I was
twenty-one years old and
hadn’t factored in the
weather. But now that I was
near thirty and I felt it,
and I thought I was a free
man, that I could do
anything. So when I asked
for that transfer I thought,
“Of course I’ve earned it
and I can do it.”
Jay Conrad Levinson:
But I was told that it was
impossible to transfer me
and I felt at the bottom,
that all along I had deluded
myself. I had been a slave.
I thought I was just a
nicely paid employee at an
advertising agency with very
little control over my life
because here I was doing
what I wanted to do but I
didn’t have the freedom to
pick up and move elsewhere.
So that was a bad feeling.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I knew also that in order to
get out of it I had to take
the kind of action that
would risk my career. I had
to leave my job, leave my
security, and leave my
income. But I did it because
I wanted to feel the sense
of freedom all over again.
Ralph Zuranski:
So was that the dream
revision that you had that
set the course of your
life? Having the freedom to
do what you wanted at any
time?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Yes, and I hate to say this,
but it happened by accident.
That was the step I took
that gave me the freedom
that I had always dreamed
about. My only goal was to
get out of Chicago and get
to a place with a milder
climate. That was the only
thought that I really had.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I never knew that once I got
to a place that had a more
moderate climate that I
would be called to the
outdoors and be called to do
hiking and skiing and
climbing.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
That I’d be called to do
things that gave me more
freedom than I ever had as a
working stiff. And I loved
my work. I looked forward
to work and enjoyed the
people I worked with and the
kind of work I did. But I
was still doing it nine to
five.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Once I had moved out west,
and once I started availing
myself of the beautiful
attractions of Redwood trees
and tide pools and nearby
ski slopes and rivers to
run, that’s when I started
really sensing a freedom
that I never knew had
existed before that.
Ralph Zuranski:
Well you know a lot of
people have setbacks in
their lives and misfortunes
and make mistakes. Do you
think it’s important to take
a positive view of the
setbacks, misfortunes, and
mistakes?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Oh, yes. If you don’t,
you’re sunk. Because I think
that everything that
happens, although it has a
negative view, probably if
you look carefully and hard
enough it also has a
positive view.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
And I try always to perceive
the positive side of
whatever happens. I allow
myself to see the negative
and feel the pain that that
causes, but then I start
searching for the positive.
Thinking positive is one of
the keys to success in
everything.
Ralph Zuranski:
How much courage does it
take to pursue new ideas? I
know you hated working in a
climate that was just brutal
and beat you down
physically. How much courage
did it take to quit that job
and move out to a temperate
climate?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
It only took courage to make
the decision. Once I made
the decision then I knew
what I had to do. I had to
contact people on the West
Coast and find an
opportunity to get a job for
myself.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
It wasn’t really difficult
to give notice in a company
where I had worked for
several years and to tell
them that I was leaving
because I had a justified
reason to leave. They
understood.
Ralph Zuranski:
A lot of people when they
have to make decisions are
assailed by fears and
doubts. How do you overcome
your fears and doubts?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I never allow any to enter
in. I figured that I was a
pretty good survivor. I was
a resourceful person and
that I could make things
work. So I never doubted
that I would make it work.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
And it never entered my mind
that this wouldn’t work
because I was not aiming
high. I was just aiming to
get free. I was not aiming
to get rich. I was aiming to
get free and I found it not
very difficult to achieve
those goals.
Ralph Zuranski:
In people’s lives there are
a lot of people who upset,
offend, and oppose us. Do
you think that it’s
important to readily forgive
those that do that?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Oh, yes. Lots of times will
they oppose you. They are in
a state of fear. Sometimes
they fear for themselves.
Sometimes it’s fear for you
because they like you. I
didn’t have too much of that
but I definitely did have to
overcome those feelings on
the parts of some family
members.
Ralph Zuranski:
Do you experience service to
others as a source of joy?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Absolutely yes. That’s one
of the big ways that I get
off everything that I do.
Ralph Zuranski:
Why are heroes so important
in the lives of young
people?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Because when they are
growing up they get to meet
a certain kind of hero in
their mother and then their
father. They get to meet
heroes in other family
members.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Then they are blessed enough
to meet heroes at their
school, mainly in the form
of teachers. That is just a
limited number of heroes.
Their teachers, their
parents, some of their
friends, some of their
coaches, and for some people
their clergy at the church
they attend.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
But those are not the kind
of heroes that they end up
really aspiring to be like.
It’s when they get old
enough to start paying
attention to the media:
radio, television,
magazines, newspapers, and
movies that they realize
that the world has a lot of
heroes and they're are not
just their parents and not
just their teachers.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
They are people who they can
aspire to be who are
different from those they
knew about as kids. They
learn a lot about those
heroes just by opening their
eyes and realizing what’s
happening in the world
around them.
Ralph Zuranski:
I spent about three years
going to all the internet
marketing conferences,
taking the photos and
running the computers for
the speakers. How does it
feel to be recognized as one
of the heroes that I met at
one of the internet
conferences?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I tell you, Ralph, it’s
wonderful. Not just to be
recognized, as such, but to
be recognized by somebody
like you. It’s who
recognizes you that means a
lot and gives you the
feeling of gratification
that you are going to feel.
The fact that a person of
your quality felt that way
about me was the frosting on
my cake.
Ralph Zuranski:
Why do you think you were
selected to be an internet
hero?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Probably because I wasn’t
afraid to write, and I wrote
a lot of books. I wasn’t
afraid to speak because when
I speak I feel so much
passion about my topic that
I have no time to be nervous
about myself.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
And I think the fact that I
conquered one of the
greatest fears in America,
the fear of public speaking,
and the fear of starting a
book knowing that you have
to finish it before the
deadline. The fact that I
did that meant something to
a number of people and
that’s how they started
identifying me as a hero,
just as I identify authors
or speakers as heroes.
Ralph Zuranski:
Do you think that probably
the fastest way to become
recognized as a hero and be
incredibly successful in
society is being an author
and a speaker both?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I think those go hand in
hand. It seems that if you
are an author, you have to
put something down and you
have to tell people
something. That’s the first
part. If you’ve done that
and done a good job, then
the rest of the world
recognizes that they want to
hear what you are saying and
they invite you to be a
speaker.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
That was something that was
never a part of my plan at
any point. But that was
something that eventually
evolved. I had never done
public speaking but I just
grew into it in a hurry
because I had to. Those
things happened to end up
what seems to be hero
status, but that was
certainly not a plan.
Ralph Zuranski:
Most people look at public
speaking that they would
rather be dead than get up
in front of an audience and
speak to people. How are you
able to change that fear of
speaking and become
successful as a speaker?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
It happened when I gave my
first talk ever. There were
a hundred people in the
auditorium, which was every
seat. I was on the front
stage with my first book
called “Earning Money
without a Job.” I was
delighted that I was going
to be giving my first talk
and then the person
introduced me and the
audience applauded.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
The person who introduced me
sat and waited for me to
speak and the room fell into
a hushed silence. That’s
the first time it dawned on
me that if I don’t talk,
nobody is going to talk.
They hired me to talk, so I
better speak.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
That’s when I just started
talking because I had to and
I didn’t really have notes
and I wasn’t positive of
what I was going to say.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
But I felt intense passion
for my topic because my
topic was how to get free,
how to earn money without a
job. Not without working,
but without a job. And I
knew I had information of
value to share with other
people.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
And it went from the silence
of the room with one hundred
people in the audience, that
moment of silence is a real
teaching point and turning
point for me.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Once I started speaking then
I knew I could do it, and I
knew I could give my whole
message. I knew these
people really cared about
what I had to say because
they were listening, and
they were taking notes. I
think that was a little
break-through moment for me.
Ralph Zuranski:
So you feel it’s important
to follow your passion in
life and that would bring
you the greatest joy?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I certainly do. I think it’s
too bad it’s not mandatory,
but I think that’s what it’s
all about. Ask yourself this
question, “If I had all the
money I would ever need,
what would I do with my
time?” If you do that
thing that you would do if
you didn’t need the money
then it’s interesting how
the money will find a way to
come up and start filling
the emptiness in your life.
Ralph Zuranski:
How has being recognized as
an internet hero changed
your life?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
It’s the things that I used
to work for before, such as
getting invitations to make
presentations, would come to
me. Clients who I’d have to
go after before by writing
them letters and asking them
to have a conversation or a
consultation with me, those
things would start coming to
me.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
People would start coming to
me; I would not have to go
after them. That was the
first sign to me that I was
becoming a hero because
these people were asking me
rather than the other way
around.
Ralph Zuranski:
How are you personally
making the world a better
place?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
By giving people access to
freedom by first of all
encouraging them to work on
their own if they don’t like
the job. I encourage them
to stay with their job if
they like it because there
is sure nothing wrong with
jobs and lots that is right
with jobs. I loved the jobs
that I had, but 80% of
Americans aren’t really
happy with the job they
have. I knew about those
people.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
There was also a recession
going on when I wrote my
first book, and I felt
horrible reading the
newspapers and the numbers I
read: 200,000 people were
laid off, 300,000 people
were laid off. I thought how
each of those people
probably has a spouse and
kids, so when they say
200,000 people they are
probably meaning 600,000
people.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
And it was like reading war
casualties to read the
casualties on the economy
and reading about how many
people were laid off. I felt
so badly for them and their
families. I thought that
these people don’t realize
there’s something other than
a job because they spend all
their time lined up at the
employment office trying to
get a job some place else.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
That’s when I thought that I
would reach out to those
people and let them know
that there is another way.
You don’t really need
another standard nine to
five job, and I’m doing it.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
When I found that I was able
to do it myself that’s when
I realized that anybody
could do it because there is
really nothing special about
me. That’s when I started
writing books to give people
that same kind of access to
freedom, access to security
and access to financial
independence.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
And that was my motivating
factor. I never once, ever,
thought of making money
writing a book. I didn’t
write my book with any idea
of making money. I wrote it
with the idea of putting
forth the message to people
who really needed to hear
that message.
Ralph Zuranski:
So you really feel that the
only real security that
someone can have is being
self-employed.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I don’t know if that’s the
only real security, but it’s
certainly the security that
gives you the most freedom.
Ralph Zuranski:
What do you think about the
"In Search of Heroes
Program" and its impact on
youth, parents, and business
people?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I think it’s so valuable,
Ralph, because it’s not one
of the things covered in the
curriculum of the
educational facilities of
the world. It’s not one of
the things covered by all
the parents and aunts and
uncles and grandparents that
teach the kids.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
It’s something that is very
important, but it takes very
special people to single out
that message and to single
out the people who need to
hear it.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I think that’s what makes it
unique and very important.
You and your programs are
one of the only sources that
exist on earth that show
people that role models are
all over the place and all
you have to do is look.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Your father may be a role
model, your mother may be a
role model, and people who
you don’t read about in the
newspapers also could be
role modeling you. There are
lots of heroes out there and
they don’t all wear ribbons
and badges and uniforms.
Ralph Zuranski:
That’s very true. What are
the things parents can do
that would help their
children realize that they,
too, can be heroes and make
a positive impact on the
lives of others?
Jay Conrad Levinson::
I think by exposing them to
the lives of other heroes
and letting them know that
all those heroes started out
as young kids who really
didn’t know what the heck
they were going to do or
which way is up.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
I think if parents could
point to other people, just
like the kids who rose above
whatever their circumstances
were and found their dream
and then pursued their
dream, that’s the best that
they can do.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
And the best, of course,
even more important than
that, is to constantly
encourage their children to
be who they are. Not to
change them, but to
encourage them to be who
they are, and then along the
way to point out other
heroes.
Ralph Zuranski:
That’s really the truth of
the issue, isn’t it?
Encouraging people and
helping to guide young
people, compared to being
your kid’s buddy.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
That’s exactly right. You’ve
got to be their buddy, that
nice. You’ve also got to
love them, which is crucial.
You’ve got to know when to
set limits, which is one of
those important and
difficult things for
parents.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
But you’ve also got to
expose them to the kind of
people you’d like to be just
so they see what other
heroes are like. It may not
be what they’ve been reading
in their comic books or
seeing on television.
Ralph Zuranski:
A lot of the heroes that I
talk to all really believe
that mentors are crucial in
the development of kids.
Where do you think the best
mentors are located?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
They may be located in your
family, but they are
probably located in
something that is connected
with your first employment.
At least that’s where I
found mine. My first boss
was a mentor to me.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
My second boss was also a
mentor to me. I felt very
blessed to work at companies
where I had people I
respected. I would single
them out and ask them
questions and just sit at
their feet and hang on their
answers. I think the
employment part of my life
is where I found my mentors.
Ralph Zuranski:
Jay, I really appreciate
your valuable time and I
appreciate you answering the
questions. Is there a
parting piece of information
you have for the young
people listening to this
call?
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Yes, there sure is. I think
people think that growing up
happy and growing up heroic
is something that happens
because of luck or with hard
work. I’m here to say that
there are only two things
that you have to do to make
those kinds of dreams come
true and they are very
simple things.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
The first thing is to have a
plan. You have to have some
sort of a plan for
yourself. Secondly you have
to commit to that plan. Now
most people don’t have plans
and of those who have plans,
very few have what it takes
to commit to that plan no
matter what.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
But I think if you have a
plan and you commit to it no
matter what, then you will
never accept failure because
you’ll realize that failure
isn’t really failing, it
just gives you an
opportunity to start again.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
People don’t fail. They just
fall down and forget that
they can get up again. They
quit trying. When you quit
trying, that’s when I
predict dire circumstances
for your life. But as long
as you keep trying, that
proves your commitment.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
If you have the commitment,
I believe you will make your
dreams come true and you
will become somebody else’s
hero.
Ralph Zuranski:
That is really profound. I
really appreciate your time,
Jay, and again, just thank
you.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
Thank you for taking the
time to bring these aspects
out and all the people we
are talking to. Ralph, you
are doing a yeoman’s job and
a very valuable job for
everybody on the planet, and
I for one am very grateful
to be part of it. Thank you
for asking me.
Ralph Zuranski:
You are very welcome, Jay.
Thanks again.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
We’ll be talking up ahead.
Ralph Zuranski:
Ok, have a good day.
Jay Conrad Levinson:
So long, Ralph.
